Diving Into Sobriety with Olympian Greg Louganis

Joining “Addiction Talk” is five-time Olympic medalist Greg Louganis. Before becoming who many consider the most remarkable American diver, Louganis turned to alcohol and drugs in his early years for several reasons: his feeling of not fitting in due to being adopted at nine months, having a darker complexion due to his Samoan heritage, and when on the U.S. National Team, bullied for being gay. His addiction to pills and alcohol and depression led to multiple suicide attempts, including one after winning the silver medal in the 1976 Olympic Games.

After realizing drinking and smoking began interfering with his diving, he attended rehab and therapy. He stopped drinking entirely in 1983, one year before the 1984 Olympics, where he became the third man in the sport's history to win gold medals in both springboard and platform. In this episode, Louganis will discuss his journey and post-Olympic life in recovery.

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:54):

Hello, and thank you for joining us for another addition of addiction. Talk my guest tonight. He's a decorated Olympic diver. You may remember him from many of his infamous dives and addiction talk is gonna show you more of his story tonight. Let's take a look. Greg Louganis has been called the greatest diver in us history. He started competing at a young age and eventually retired in 1988 after winning five Olympic medals, five world championship titles and 47 national titles. Many people were remember his infamous scene during the diving preliminary competition at the so Olympics. When Greg hit his head on the diving board for most divers an accident that severe would be competition ending if not career ending, but not for Greg. He qualified for the finals and went on to win the gold and the men's three meter springboard event in 1995. Greg shot the world. When he announced on Barbara Walter's 2020 and the Oprah Winfrey show that he is gay and HIV positive. The interviews were in advance of the release of his autobiography, breaking the surface, which detailed the struggles he faced on his journey to gold medal glory, including his battle with addiction during his career. Greg has also appeared in aid films and on numerous television shows and has even met several us presidents today. He's a coach speaker, author, actor, activist, and humanitarian addiction talk starts now.

Speaker 1 (02:44):

And now we have Greg joining us to share more of his story, Greg, as we were talking to people telling them that you were gonna be on addiction talk. So many people were very interested in your story, cuz they remembered you. You were kinda the household name, we you on the Wheaties box and all of that. So welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (03:03):

Thank you. They're probably saying, is he still alive? <Laugh> <laugh>

Speaker 1 (03:09):

I know cause we see you as a young man, but you still a good Greg, you know? Oh my God. I know this was in the eighties and all of that, but to even see you now I can still see that you're going strong and you know, I'm sure you could still rock a Speedo.

Speaker 2 (03:25):

Yeah. I'll pat myself on the back with that one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I can get in this Speedo.

Speaker 1 (03:32):

You're like I

Speaker 2 (03:33):

Look presentable

Speaker 1 (03:34):

And look presentable. Yes. So, but first I just wanna commend you for publicly sharing your journey cuz you've been so vocal in your life. Not only just about your struggles with addiction, but your HIV diagnosis and even this coming out in the 1980s, you know, at a time where there was still a lot of stigma, you know, coming out and saying, Hey, I am gay and, and I'm really ready to share my journey with the world. So I know we're gonna delve into that tonight, but first I want you to take me back cuz many people see you and they think, how did he even know that he was interested in diving at such a young age? Tell me about your childhood and yeah. And how you even figured that out.

Speaker 2 (04:13):

Okay. Joy. What happened was okay, so I'm adopted and and I have an older sister and so my, what happened was my mother put my sister in dance in acrobatics classes because she didn't want some CLSI kid running around, knocking down lamps. And I would be in there, you know, in, in the waiting room and they give me a coloring book and I couldn't stay in the line. So it was like, Ugh, boring. So would I crawl under the chairs and sneak into the studio and imitate when I was a year and a half when and imitate, you know, what they were doing? And so the teacher said, oh, let him stay, you know, see what he can learn. And I was three years old when I did my first performance on stage. I sang dance with me and did a little tap number.

Speaker 2 (05:04):

And then shortly thereafter I got a, a partner. And so we did all kinds of recitals and plays and doing acrobatics and dance. And and I, we couldn't compete in talent contest until I turned six. So when I turned six, she was a year older than me. When I turned six, then we started winning all of these competitions. And then I was about seven years old. She went into gymnastics and I followed her into gymnastics. And so I loved gymnastics. That was my dream was to make the Olympic team in gymnastics. That was my, you know, my true love. And and so what happened when I was eight, we had a pool built in our backyard. And so I was trying some of my gymnastics stunts off the diving board at home and pretty natural, right. So my mother didn't want me to kill myself.

Speaker 2 (06:04):

So she got me lessons. And so the first day out to lessons diving lessons, they asked me to be on the club team. And I said, I think about it. I, you know, I never thought I was that good of a diver. And so it just kind of happened. I mean, it all just kind of evolved because the dance it's the same rhythm type stuff that you, that is necessary. A lot of the skill sets necessary to be a good diver go into my dance performance that that's, that's a part of the skillset, acrobatics, the tumbling, the knowing where you are in space that goes well for diving. So,

Speaker 1 (06:47):

So it was just like a happenstance that, yeah. You know, you sign yourself in diving and I think what's so fascinating, Greg is you find yourself in this sport diving by 16, you win your first medal as silver medal, but even in the time where you discovered you have this talent, you're Dr. Diving 16 win your first silver medal. You were battling with depression.

Speaker 2 (07:13):

Yeah. Well, okay. So yeah, I've suffered from chronic depression ever since I was a young kid. And basically what, what, what happened was I, I had Ossie slaughters, which is very common for very active children. And so my doctor said that when I was 12 years, 11, 12 years old I had to quit the acrobatics, the dance, the gymnastics, all that, but I could con continue diving. So all that energy that was going out to all of these different disciplines was focused onto one discipline. And so then a year later when I was 13, I was world champion for my age group. And then three years after that, I made my first Olympic team. And really in 1976 in, in the lead up to 1976, I was diving with Dr. Sammy Lee. He won two gold medals in diving men's platform, diving in 48 and 52 from the us.

Speaker 2 (08:11):

And he represented the us. And then he helped coach Bobby Webster who won two Olympic gold medals in 60 64 in 76, Klaus DBI OSI from Italy was going for his third Olympic gold medal. So when I started diving with Dr. Lee, my sole purpose on this earth was to to defeat Klauss, to prevent him from breaking my coach's record. And so I took that on as a 16 year old kid. I went there to my first Olympics in Montreal in 76 to win. I didn't go there to take second. So when I, I took second, I felt like a failure and I didn't, I didn't understand you know, I, people were celebrating me and I didn't understand that because I felt like I definitely let my coach down, but I thought I let the world down. I thought I, I let my country down my family down. And there was a lot of shame and, and guilt surrounding that. So yeah, I mean, I, and, and the highest rate of suicides amongst Olympians is Olympic silver medalists.

Speaker 1 (09:29):

Really? Yeah. So the highest rate of suicides. Yeah. Olympic silver Olympic medalist. So that was your first, you attempt at suicide right after winning the Olympic silver medalist.

Speaker 2 (09:44):

I, I, I had a suicide attempt, I think, before that, but like the, that the LA, you know, after the 76 Olympic games, that was a pretty serious one. I mean I didn't have to go to the hospital or anything like that, but it was one of those things that, you know, my parents did find out. And so and back in those days, I mean, we didn't talk if, if you're going to a psychiatrist, you know, people were saying, oh, you're not crazy. You're not crazy. You know? And so, you know, you're, and, and I'm male. So you squelch a whole there's emotions down and, and all that you know, and to, you know, and there wasn't that kind of, there, there was so much stigma surrounding mental health, you know, mental you know, depression, all of that stuff, you know, that you, there, there's not the support that, that we have today. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, I mean, what, so as a

Speaker 1 (10:43):

16 year old, they had to be a lot. So you're 16, you have this suicide attempt yet. You feel, you know, to most people they're like, wow, you made it to the Olympics. Wow. You want a silver medal, but inside you're battling inside, you are struggling. Did people, do you think people around you, when your parents found you or found that you had had this suicide attempt, do you think people around you realized how you were feeling, or were you painting this picture as a kid that, you know, all was great?

Speaker 2 (11:15):

Well, any anybody <laugh>, anybody who suffers from chronic depression, we know we are, we are great actors. We are really good actors, you know, that you you'd never know. That's why, you know, it's so important, you know, to be aware and alert, you know, if somebody starts kind of retreating or isolating, you know, that's, you know, that there's a sign, that's a sign that's, something's up. Something might be a little bit off. And so, yeah, so it was, was, it was something that you know, that I grew up with. I mean, it was just this, you know, this dark cloud that I, I, I felt like it would never go away.

Speaker 1 (12:01):

So you lived, and I wanna understand that too, when you talk about this dark cloud that you dealt with, mm-hmm <affirmative> I understand you were also bill bullied as a child, so there was a lot going on in your childhood. Tell me about some of the things that you, you know, of course, we see you making these great strides in the diving you know, genre book, what was going on in your, in your life and behind the scenes during these years that a lot of people may not have even realized,

Speaker 2 (12:28):

Well, you know, I gr I was I'm, I'm very shy. And so I'm not much of an extrovert. I also, when I started school, I, I stuttered. So I was in speech therapy. I'm dyslexic. I didn't learn about dyslexia until I was in a freshman in college. I was given dyslexia as a vocabulary where I go, oh, that I'm dyslexic, because I thought it was all the names that they called me on the, on the playground, know that I was a moron and stupid and, and all of these names. I knew there, there was something wrong, but I didn't know what it is. And we didn't know a whole lot about dyslexia at, at that time. So, you know, I just, I, I, I knew that I could show people that I could dance. I could tumble, I could die, you know, so I could show people that I might have some self worth what I could show them physically, you know, with my body.

Speaker 1 (13:34):

So how long do you feel like that dark cloud? You know, you, you said, you know, a lot of people may not have realized it, but there was like this dark cloud hanging over you. How long were you, did you feel like you were battling that dark cloud and, and, and dealing with that throughout your life?

Speaker 2 (13:52):

You know, those, those dark clouds of depression, it's like the weather, you know, they come, they go, they come again, they go, you know, and you know, one of the things that that I I've learned in, you know, it's like Dr. Wayne Dyer, you know, every, everything changes, you know, whether it's good, whether it's bad,

Speaker 1 (14:17):

Whatever life is constantly changing,

Speaker 2 (14:18):

Life is constantly changing. Right. So, you know you know, and, and a lot of my depressive episodes, you know, I would think to myself, this too shall change. So,

Speaker 1 (14:33):

So that's kind of like how you've been coping over the years, but I I'm curious when you were dealing with the dark cloud and stuff like that, at some point it led you to alcohol. Yeah. And coping, when did that start? Was that just like, you know, you realize you're struggling and you're like, okay, this makes me feel better. How did that even begin for you?

Speaker 2 (14:54):

Well, okay. So both my parents drank and, you know, this is back in the sixties and seventies, they smoked, they drank, you know, so those were my role models. I, I think the first time I think it was like a 4th of July. We had the family over and everybody had their drinks and they're going out to see the fireworks. And I was three years old and I'm like, oh, lemme taste this one, lemme

Speaker 1 (15:20):

Wait at three.

Speaker 2 (15:21):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, and then I got kind of tipsy, you know, I was like, oh, and, and

Speaker 1 (15:29):

Wait at three years old, let me understand this. Yeah. So at three years old.

Speaker 2 (15:32):

Yeah. And so, and so then, you know, every, everybody thought that was, you know, that was cute. It was a three year old kid, you know, you know, kind of staggering around. And so kind of, kind of that joke kind of thing. And, but then later in life, probably through my through puberty, you know, I was probably in my early teens you know, I thought, wow, you know, this makes me feel kind of good. It kind of gets me out of myself that I'm not. So self-conscious that I'm not, you know, so then you know, there was a Halloween when I was, I think I was 13. We went we went out for Halloween and I stole a couple of bottles of wine or something from the house. And I was the only one drinking, you know, everybody else was too afraid. And so I, and so then I come home and I'm staggering drunk. And then my punishment was to go to school the next day because we had school. And yeah, I mean, I was pretty hungover. I was feeling pretty

Speaker 1 (16:39):

Well, 13. So we're hearing this progression. We see at three you're first supposed to alcohol, everybody thinks it's kind of cute 13. You realized, Hey, when I drink, I feel a little bit better. I, more social accepted. I've been, you know, I've been called moron and all these different names. You didn't know what was really going on with you. Yeah. So did you find alcohol then became a regular coping mechanism?

Speaker 2 (17:04):

Mm. To a degree? Yes, I, I did, because I do remember filling one of those lemons, you know, those, those plastic lemons that you squeeze, you know, emptying that and then filling it with bourbon or something. I don't know. It was crazy and taking it to school. But the, the one, the one thing that was going in my favor, though, I I'd have to say is that I was so active, you know, I, you know, I couldn't do this when I was training or if I had rehearsals or anything like that. So I was very mindful of that. So it wasn't, it wasn't a constant, it wasn't a progressive deterioration or anything like that. It was just out there, you know, it was just something that was kind of around. 

Speaker 1 (17:59):

But then how did you know you had a problem?

Speaker 2 (18:02):

Well, I mean, I, I didn't really, when it, what, what happened and I didn't, there were periods of time. I, the, the thing that was most important to me was my diving. So if it, if it interfered with my diving, then it was it taken off, you know, the option list. And so yeah, so that was my priority. I mean, I even back in the eighties at university of Miami, you know, of course, you know, there's cocaine and all that. And, and also being an elite athlete that was pretty common. You know, you get things thrown at you. It's like, oh, try this, try that, you know and you know, people kind of to kind, I don't know, win, win your favor or whatever mm-hmm <affirmative>, but you know, I did, you know, get into cocaine and, and then what happened was we had a weekend and we were partying.

Speaker 2 (19:07):

And then the Monday after my coach wanted us to do our optional dives, our difficult dives in the morning on Monday. And I couldn't make 'em, I couldn't make my, my optional dives. Mm. And so I was like, okay, that's enough. And I just walked away. I just walked away you know, from cocaine because it interfered with what my prior priority was. So it's, it's been kind of that, you know, that shift and, and journey of navigating all of these things where you have, you know, have those, those things out there at your, you know,

Speaker 1 (19:47):

Available to you

Speaker 2 (19:49):

Available

Speaker 1 (19:49):

To you. Well, this is really interesting cuz as I'm understanding your story, Greg, you're saying, okay. I, you know, I knew that I was drinking in high school mm-hmm <affirmative> to kind of cope. Then I said, okay, I don't want something. That's gonna interfere with my diving. If that interferes, I can stop it. And you, you know, dabbled in the cocaine. So when did it get to a breaking point where you realize I need to go to rehab, I need there, there needs to be treatment. Yeah. You know, for what I'm struggling with, because it sounds like, you know, with the ebbs and flow, it could be easy to say, well, I don't really have a problem. I can control this when I wanna, if I'm diving, I don't, you know, I can cut it out. So I, I have to know how you got to that point.

Speaker 2 (20:31):

Well it's okay. So I, I look at my sobriety as a journey. Okay. You know, and so my, a part of that journey was dealing with chronic depression. After, after my dad passed there, there, there was some stuff going on. He died of cancer. I inherited his you know, his pain medications. And so then that was a part of that you know, deadening the pain, the emotional pain that I was in. And so then I went into therapy surrounding that and you know, and that's when the therapist said, you know, oh, you're just, self-medicating because of this emotional pain. So working with that, understanding that making peace with that and also in dealing with chronic depression, I, I was on a, just this crazy myth.

Speaker 1 (21:50):

Okay. Greg, I think right now, I can't tell if your screen is frozen or my screen is frozen. But if you're with us right now, Greg has been sharing his story about how he has struggled with depression most of his life or all of his life that he remembers and how he was dealing with so much pain and learning how in the midst of that pain what he used to cope, he talks about using alcohol as a coping mechanism. And he also talked about just his struggles of, you know, the bullying that he experienced. And so Greg has really been just sharing his journey with us of just what he experienced and what I think is so interesting when we think about addiction and hopefully Greg will be able to come back with us here shortly is that everybody's story is different.

Speaker 1 (22:40):

You know, everybody's journey is unique to them, but I love that what Greg said is it's truly a journey he's, you know, had so many different things that he's dealt with over time, whether it's started with the alcohol use at three years old to, you know, taking his father's pain medications. He also shared with me that he had had a DUI. So just different things that were a wake up call to Greg over this, these years, Greg, I've just been recapping your story. And I said, he's back. But you know, I know you were talking about that for you. Addiction has really just been this journey. Your sobriety has really just been this journey. Yeah. And so what does that journey look like for you and where are you now, Greg?

Speaker 2 (23:24):

Okay. So the journey was okay. I was in rehab for the psych meds got off the psych meds and, and also started learning about more, much more holistic treatments vitamin supplements and, and, and that sort of thing. And then and, and then what happened what my therapist said, oh, you're not an addict, you're not an alcoholic. And so then I kind of eased up on that. I was seeing seeing somebody who liked a glass of wine with dinner. And so so I kind of eased up on that and just had drank kind of socially. And then and then when my mom passed, that's when things, the, the wheels fell off and I would lock myself in my house, you know, at four o'clock in the evening and not go out. That was kind of my rule.

Speaker 2 (24:25):

And so then you know, so then I got in touch with my friends, said, oh, I'm six weeks sober. I'm like, oh my God. I, you know, I've been thinking about that. I need to do something about this, you know, because it is kind of problematic, you know, locking myself in my house at, you know, four o'clock in, in the afternoon with my great Danes. I had five great Danes. And so you know, I was meaning to address it. And what happened was a friend of mine talked me out to go to dinner. And I, it was this really nice restaurant in Malibu, and I don't know how many glasses of wine I had. Mm. I, you know, just like the, it was my, my glass was always full, you know? And so I didn't think anything about it and I'm staggering out to my car and they said, oh, we'll drive you home and said, no, no, I'm just down the road.

Speaker 2 (25:17):

And and I got a DUI. And so that was a wake real wake up call because I had an eight week old puppy in the car. And that eight week old puppy was supposed to go to the shelter and it wasn't fully, you know, vaccinated, you know? And so I, you know, when I was being booked, you know, then, you know, I said, please, I, I don't, I don't care about myself. I care about my puppy. You know, if you can just please keep her in the office, you know, so that she's not exposed you know, to the shelter dogs to possible disease and all that. And actually they did, they were wonderful. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so with that DUI, I went to DUI school and went to started going to AA. And that was another thing when I was going, you know, getting sober the first time, it was just me and my therapist. And so once I found the rooms of AA, then, you know, I had this other support. And so, you know, that was, that was really wonderful and something that I really needed mm-hmm <affirmative> because you're not alone. Okay. The, the whole addiction thing, you're not alone. And there's so many of us out there, you know?

Speaker 1 (26:34):

Yeah. And I think that's why it's so important that, you know, we hear more people's stories cuz there's no one size fits all for this recovery journey. Wow. Tell me about, I mean, mean you were, you know, we talked about your childhood, a little bit of the trauma that you went through and coping through that, but you also, for years, I'm sure were living with a secret, you know, that you didn't tell anybody for a while till you came out at a time that a lot of stigma was still out there around admitting that you were gay and dealing with that. So tell me about how, you know, coming out and dealing with that and all of these other things that were challenges for you, how have you been able to navigate that? How were you able to get through those times?

Speaker 2 (27:17):

Well, you know, it's a lot of people they say, well, when did you come out? You know, big question when, I mean, it's not a single event. I mean, you're coming out every day, you know, when, if you think about it, you're coming, coming out every day. But I was out to friends and family even when I was diving. And then after the 84 Olympic games I got signed on with the William Morris agency and they said, okay, tone down. The gay thing said, oh, okay. So it was just my policy not to discuss my personal life with members of the media. And so, and the whole coming up process really is it's a process. That's exactly what it is. And so I was doing Jeffrey in New York to play Jeffrey and I played Darius. And in playing that role night after night after night, I was able to you know, to, you know, to face my fears because he dies of HIV aids, complicated HIV aids, and he's out and proud and on TV. So, and, and experience, you know you know, you know, life openly and openly and authentically. So then my feeling might was the next step for me. And my personal development wa was to come out about my sexual identity, my sexual preference, and my HIV

Speaker 1 (28:56):

Was what was that? Like it take me back there cuz I know to do that. I mean, I know Barbara Walters, I, you know, she's one of my icons when I look at her, but have to do that. I know that it's like 1995, you're sharing that you're being more vulnerable. It's right before your book comes out breaking the surface. So what was going through your mind? What was that like at that moment?

Speaker 2 (29:16):

It was pretty scary. I mean, I, I knew that it was the next step in my, in, in my development. I, I knew that that was I, I knew that that was what I needed to do for myself and to grow and, but my, my mother was afraid for my safety. I had a lot of friends who were afraid for me. But I just knew it was, it was the next step for me. It was scary. It really was scary and talk about you know, abandonment issues. I was working with a therapist before that to get to where I could talk about my sexual iden, my sexual preferences, as well as my HIV to the public, but we never got there. And so it was on the Eve of the, of the Barbara Walter's interview. And I went to my therapy session thinking, oh, we're gonna cover this now.

Speaker 2 (30:18):

And and there was a note on his door saying that if it's an emergency, then somebody else who's taking those, those patients that he was unavailable as it turned out. Dr. Stan Ziegler passed, oh, he died of complications with Crohn's disease. And so then I found out that out from my editor. And so that was like so devastating. And I, I shared that with Barbara and she just wrapped her arms around me and gave me this huge hug. And she said, you know, we'll get through this together. Mm. I know how difficult this is, but we'll get through it together.

Speaker 1 (31:01):

And did that give you the confidence just the way she embraced you?

Speaker 2 (31:04):

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:05):

To say, I can share this with her, like this is, this is the time.

Speaker 2 (31:09):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, she was, I mean, I, you know, I know she comes off kind of harsh sometimes, you know, kind of hard cutting, but you know, just my experience with her is she's just has this heart of gold, you know, she was just so sweet and kind and making sure after the cameras are off, are you okay? Are you okay? That's, you know, which was so comforting. And you know, and I, I, I knew I was doing the right thing. I knew I was doing the right thing. And what happened on that book tour for breaking the surface? I mean, we had thousands of people showing up to the book signings. I mean, I was there far longer than I was supposed to, supposed to be and just people waiting in line. And, and the, the thing that was so gratifying was the stories that people were sharing with me. You know, people saying, oh, you saved my life. Oh, I came out to my family about, about my sexual identity. You know, with your book, I came out to my friends and family about my HIV through your book people feeling that they weren't alone or others that were, you know, battling cancer or whatever, you know, and it was just so incredibly mm-hmm <affirmative> norm and nurturing. And

Speaker 1 (32:41):

What different than what you kind of anticipated the reaction would be because, you know, there is a lot of stigma when you think about it with addiction, still stigma. Yeah. Sometimes still, you know, you said coming out every day can still be stigmatizing for some people and how, you know, in the reactions they may get, and then also the HIV diagnosis. So you've dealt with a, a lot of different things that, you know, have stigma attached to them. And how have you navigated that? You know, how have you, what did you have to do mentally to navigate that, to say, Hey, my story, sharing these things, even though there's this stigma, I have to do this

Speaker 2 (33:22):

Well, you know, the first time that you start talking about it, talking about, you know, your, your sexuality or a disease, the first time you talk about it, it's to whomever, whoever that is is scary, it's scary. But then once they understand, and, and they are aware and understand, then then that those people grow, you know, you, more people and more people and more people. And the more you talk about it, the more confidence that you have in yourself and saying, you know what, it's just a part of me. It doesn't define me. It's not who I am. It's not, it, it doesn't necessarily define who I am, because we're all so complex. We have so many gifts to offer this world. So, you know, that may be a part of it,

Speaker 1 (34:20):

But, but, but, you know, that's so powerful what you said there, because, you know, a lot of times people feel like their addiction defines them,

Speaker 2 (34:28):

Right.

Speaker 1 (34:28):

Or their diagnosis, like you said, a HIV diagnosis defines them. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> and that becomes their, you know, the defining. But what you said was so powerful that we're, we, we have all these other gifts too, you know, we have so much to give to the world. Yeah. And you know, one question I wanted to ask is you've been sharing this. What was the, the hardest part, or what were you more concerned about stigma wise, people knowing about the addiction, people knowing about the HIV or coming out as gay, what was, what was the hardest one?

Speaker 2 (34:58):

You know, I'd have to say my HIV status because there was I mean, even within the G T QAI community, you know, there was this stigma surrounding, oh, you're dirty, you know? Oh, you're you know, yeah. It, and it, that whole stigma. And then, and then getting a feeling. I, I mean, I, I, I remember, I, I, I booked a speaking engagement for breaking the surface in Lawrence, Kansas back in 95. And I knew that Reverend Fred Phelps, that was his backyard. So I knew that he would probably be there mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, and he was, and so there, it was standing room only at, at the speaking event. And and then there were picketers outside, you know, this, they said, okay, Greg, it's time to get, get to the stage. And they started taking me to the, you know, through the bowels of the auditorium or whatever, and said, isn't there a faster way. I said, yeah, but we don't want you to see what's going on outside. I said, no, no, no, I wanna see it. Okay. Well take you upstairs and we'll let you, you, you can see from up there, it's safer. And I looked down and it's like, oh, you know, pictures of me D aids, and you're, you'll burn in hell and 6, 6, 6 on my forehead and all that it say, oh my God, that's so cool. And <laugh>, I, I have really bizarre. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:30):

I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 (36:31):

And so, and so then when one of the, when it came to the Q and a, at the end of the event, and they said, Mr. Luis, wait, what do you think of the ignorance? That's standing outside this building. I said, oh, you mean Fred and everybody kind of chuckled. And they said, well, I feel like I should hand him a Teddy bear and tell him he needs lots of hugs, because anybody who spews that much hate can't like themselves very much. And so what would, the cool thing was, was the Q a I student body sent him a bunch of Teddy bears in my honor telling him he needs

Speaker 1 (37:06):

To.

Speaker 2 (37:07):

And I thought that was like, so cool. But you know, you in, in facing those things, my tendency is to face those fears. Mm. So like, if, if I'm afraid of spiders, then I get a tarantula. I had a pet tarantula. If I find I'm afraid of snakes, then I get a pet snake, you know? So it's, you know, it's facing those fears and realizing they're not, they're not the monsters that we make them out to be.

Speaker 1 (37:40):

Mm.

Speaker 2 (37:40):

And we do that with our emotions too. And with topics like HIV or our sexual identity,

Speaker 1 (37:48):

We, or addiction. Yeah. Like

Speaker 2 (37:49):

We, or addiction, mm-hmm <affirmative>, we make those into monsters. And if we just open up and share, then we take the power out of the, out of that fear, you know? So that it's like, oh yeah, I'm a, you know, I'm, I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic. It's like, oh, me too. You know, you'll find that you'll you have so much more support when you open up

Speaker 1 (38:21):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. I think that's so true. And when you think about your story, what do you hope people learn from your journey? If there were, you know, if there were a few key takeaways that you said, I want people to learn this from my journey, what did, what would that be?

Speaker 2 (38:37):

Forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (38:39):

Ooh, okay.

Speaker 2 (38:41):

Forgiveness. Because the first person that you have to forgive is yourself. That's the first person you have to forgive and looking at sobriety as a journey, then you're not so judgemental. It's like, it's, you're either sober or you are not no, you know, because there's different types of sobriety too. You know, it's not just the substances, but there's emotional sobriety as well. You know, to have that emotional sobriety, to have that centering, you know, that ability to forgive, to forgive ourselves, to forgive others, to have compassion for others who you feel wronged by

Speaker 1 (39:29):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative> now, Greg, what did you have to forgive yourself for? If that's not personal? I know that's a deep question giving yourself too, but I was just curious, what did you feel like you had to forgive yourself for?

Speaker 2 (39:44):

I had to, I, I feel like I had to forgive myself for not believing in myself, not believing in myself that I was worthy. Because for a long time, through a lot of my depression of my youth, I, I wished I had never been born.

Speaker 1 (40:06):

Mm.

Speaker 2 (40:07):

You know, I, you know, cuz I am adopted, I, you know, I feel I was in a sense born into shame. My mother was 16 when she had me, you know? And so she was sent away, you know, to have, have me. So that being born was, was something of shame. And I felt guilty that I put this on this young girl and then forced this other family to adopt me. I didn't force them. No, they did choose it. But just learning all of those things and giving yourself credit for being a blessing

Speaker 1 (40:51):

Rather

Speaker 2 (40:52):

Than, you know, being a curse to someone

Speaker 1 (40:56):

That's huge. So when you look back, you know, Greg, over your career as a diver and you see that young 16 year old who wins this crazy silver medal in the Olympics, what would you say to your younger self? If you could go back to that young man who felt like he wasn't enough, that felt like, oh my gosh, you know, silver medal, I'm disappointing the whole world. Yeah. What would you say to him?

Speaker 2 (41:23):

It'll be okay. It it'll, it'll be okay. You'll and, and the thing is, I, I wouldn't change anything

Speaker 1 (41:34):

Really.

Speaker 2 (41:35):

I would not change anything in my life.

Speaker 1 (41:37):

Not the addiction, not the diagnosis. No.

Speaker 2 (41:41):

No. Because all, everything, all of that has taught me because what, what do you learn? What do you learn? You learn compassion, you know, I'm grateful. I mean, I was, I was raped, you know my earlier partner one of my first partners, he raped me in the first year that we were together. And I stayed, you know, for a number of years after that. And so I had to myself because it, I stayed. But I also had to forgive him and, and I forgave him more for me, but I also am compelled to understand where he came from. Had I been him with the same experience, experiences, life experiences. I probably would've done the, exactly the same thing and acted the same way. You

Speaker 1 (42:43):

Know? So it's given you like this compassion yeah. For forgiving yourself. And I'm sure that has been very therapeutic on your journey. And I wanna get to, you know, as we're getting close to time, I think I've gone over, but your story is so interesting. What wisdom did you learn about self acceptance and, you know, we talked about forgiveness. Yeah. And I it's huge, but also just accepting yourself, accepting all of this, who you are. Yeah. How has that also helped in your sobriety journey?

Speaker 2 (43:15):

Well, I think it's important to know, to understand that. I mean, it's like what I described with the dark clouds of depression, you know, it's constantly changing, you know, it's not all you don't wake up one day and make these decisions. I'm gonna be this person. And then all of a sudden it's all flowers and, and daffodils, you know, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's, it's, you're gonna have good days. You're gonna have bad days. But everything that happens that happens is gonna change mm-hmm <affirmative> your feelings are gonna change.

Speaker 1 (44:00):

No, I think that's huge. Greg, you're talking about, you know, the journey and you've frozen on us again, but I think what you said was very powerful there. Just being willing to forgive yourself, knowing that life is ever changing, knowing that things change and it's okay. And you know, when we listen to Greg's story, I think it's a story of grace. It's a story of realizing that addiction, his journey, all of that has been part of his journey. And I think what's so powerful is to hear, say that I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change my HIV diagnosis. I wouldn't change that. You know, I battled addiction or that I'm dealing with chronic depression, the fact that he said he wouldn't change any of that, I think is very, very telling and very powerful. And I think, and I hope that everyone who was listened here today to Greg's story has taken something away in their own journey.

Speaker 1 (44:57):

I'm hoping he's gonna come back in for the last few moments, but just to recap, you know, Greg has talked a lot about, you know, his struggles of acceptance talked about the bullying that he went through, but ultimately being able to forgive others and to forgive himself and to move forward really in this addiction journey and his healing journey that he's been able to do over the years. So I've been really touched by that and tonight and his story. And I think it takes a lot of courage to be able to come on and to share your journey and to be so vulnerable. And to do that. I can only imagine when he had to do that in 1995 in front of Walter Barbara Walters or sharing his experience with the world. But I hope if, you know, if you're watching this tonight and you're struggling, I hope that you realize one that you're not alone, that your story might be unique in how you've dealt with addiction or depression or any other challenges that life has thrown your way, but that you are not alone. And I think that's one of the big things here tonight and to love yourself and to forgive yourself. So I'm not sure if Greg is gonna come back with us if he's having technical difficulties, but I just wanted to thank you for tuning in tonight for being a part of this journey with us is we continue to share stories of addiction because every story matters and that's gonna do it for the another episode of addiction talk, have a good night.